tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post684602553471216574..comments2024-01-02T22:04:14.159-08:00Comments on Raptor Identification and Photography: Silver Swainson's Hawk?????Jerry Liguorihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-90188391489326366322015-07-16T06:09:57.994-07:002015-07-16T06:09:57.994-07:00Thanks Ronnie, and the females are the larger ones...Thanks Ronnie, and the females are the larger ones...must be fun to watch them!Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-91183047351227944732015-07-15T20:31:02.511-07:002015-07-15T20:31:02.511-07:00I have seen up to 9 of these amazing hawks near my...I have seen up to 9 of these amazing hawks near my house. Every time I clip one of my pastures they come and swoop down and catch grass hoppers flying up in front of the tractor. They usually get within 15 to 20 feet and are very beautiful and graceful. There seems to be 2 different sizes not sure which is male for female.Ronniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16529446906750163489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-4720822120410651212013-12-14T06:25:38.570-08:002013-12-14T06:25:38.570-08:00It depends on who you talk to....there are some te...It depends on who you talk to....there are some terms I don't gripe about and others I think need to be defined clearly. But terms like this everybody knows what you are talking about so its not a big deal. I have my preference but I really have no qualmsJerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-19831380798554894162013-12-14T02:01:51.607-08:002013-12-14T02:01:51.607-08:00So what's your opinion, Jerry? Dilution same ...So what's your opinion, Jerry? Dilution same as leucism or separate from?<br />What about leucism and partial albinism? Putting you on the spot! :)Hatem Gomaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-24711689292678709082013-12-12T06:39:40.418-08:002013-12-12T06:39:40.418-08:00I think common sense would suggest that dilution w...I think common sense would suggest that dilution wouldn't be a form of leucism or connected to it in any way. One is basically the 'fading' (for the lack of a better word) of the color while the other is more of a color change. There is a clear difference and it seems to me pretty straightforward and very strange how anyone could correlate the two. I did see a recent photo of a partial albino rough legged hawk (the one I sent you) that made me think to never say never. How rare is any degree of albinism in rough legs compared to red-tails!? But then again, red tail populations are most likely greater so the chances are also higher. Interesting stuff.Hatem Gomaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-41620209792371850312013-12-09T07:09:11.443-08:002013-12-09T07:09:11.443-08:00There are a few photos of leucistic and diluted Ba...There are a few photos of leucistic and diluted Bald and Golden Eagles out there. Depending on who you ask and their reasoning, some say dilute plumage and leucism are separate things, some say dilute plumage is a form of leucism. I think there was a long discussion recently about it. Either way, it is nice to qualify which one it is no matter the definitionJerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-507277282430608932013-12-09T03:23:31.308-08:002013-12-09T03:23:31.308-08:00That's great. You mentioned above finding the...That's great. You mentioned above finding the right word to describe what's happening with this bird's plumage. It's interesting when you look a luecism or melanism vs dilution vs aberrant plumages and related species of raptors where one occurs more than the other or almost exclusively and vice versa. I think taking those terms and defining each one specifically to get a better understanding of them would probably be a better start. It would make for easier determination as to what is happening in each specific case. It seems leucism and melanism are the same thing? While dilution is something different as well as aberration (or aberrant plumages), those can be placed in a separate category and if it were up to me, I would put this Swainson's in the category of aberrant plumaged raptor. It has color, a lot of it, as a matter of fact, just not the typical ones. The color doesn't seem to be a result of albinism, leucism or melanism assuming all three of those are the same thing. It's not diluted because it's not a washed out version of the original/typical coloration because the pigment is very strong, just completely unusual for that species. <br /><br />Off the top of my head (and correct me if I'm wrong, Jerry and/or others), but it seems like in red tails, you see luecism and albinism (or melanism, I guess) with the super rare and close to non-existent cases of dilution and no aberration. Whereas in some other species you see only dilution and others what appears to be combination of that and aberrant plumages almost and practically never any leucism or albinism such as bald eagles and that example I posted unless.....leucism and/or melanism is the same thing as dilution? I don't think there has ever been a documented case of albinism is bald eagles, has there? Red-tails seem to produce leucistic birds almost exclusively with exception of a super rare sighting like the one you just mentioned with dilution (which brings me back to thinking leucism is NOT the same thing as dilution). While birds like this Swainson's and certain other species produce almost exclusively aberrant plumages (besides color morphs which is something totally different)! Birds with extreme color morphs don't seem to produce any leucism and lean more towards aberrations. Even red shouldered hawks will show more aberrant traits than luesicm. Accipiters almost never of either. Same with falcons. At least that's what it seems to me and I think I'm more confused than when I started writing this. Hatem Gomaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-51031100375075534002013-12-07T08:01:22.172-08:002013-12-07T08:01:22.172-08:00The first dilute plumaged bird I saw was at a hawk...The first dilute plumaged bird I saw was at a hawk migration site when I was the counter. I identified it as a juvenile Red-tail on shape but it was silhouetted, I didn't see that it was dilute until it came by to my east, and I grabbed my camera and snapped two crappy photos with an old camera and slide film (bird I sent you). I was pretty excited to have it come by. The other observer was like "say that again, what the heck is that?"Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-36807879784293885132013-12-07T07:57:55.642-08:002013-12-07T07:57:55.642-08:00Did you have any heart palpitations, or heavy swea...Did you have any heart palpitations, or heavy sweating, or trouble breathing? The shakes? I know I would have all the above along with massive heart failure from excitement! Almost like maybe I should hope to never see anything like that. :) Hatem Gomaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-3295199064948451862013-12-06T07:41:23.667-08:002013-12-06T07:41:23.667-08:00I have seen that Eagle and a few others like it, v...I have seen that Eagle and a few others like it, very cool!Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-82200628339164059512013-12-05T20:59:38.748-08:002013-12-05T20:59:38.748-08:00I keep coming back to this birdie because it remin...I keep coming back to this birdie because it reminded me of another super rare raptor that was featured in a magazine many years ago. I'm guessing Jerry and some others remember this. <br />It has 'kinda' similar grey color appearance but in this case, it's a dilution of the bird's original color so it makes sense. But in this hawk here, the silver/grey is out of left field, for sure. <br /><br />Interesting and somewhat similar yet different. IMO, probably one of the rarest birds in the world.<br />Adult bald Eagle with diluted plumage:<br /><br />http://feralzach.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/call-me-ishmael/Hatem Gomaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-75161391680933913042013-11-14T05:21:53.729-08:002013-11-14T05:21:53.729-08:00Wonderful! Love these head-scratchers! From my p...Wonderful! Love these head-scratchers! From my perspective, I do see a Swainson's hawk, especially the dark bib. Very obvious in the 2nd photo. And the hand is long enough for Swainson's, the distance from the wrist to the tip of the primaries just surpasses the tail by a little bit just like in Swainson's hawks. You can see a little bit of the reddish brown in the greater primary coverts and even some on the axillary feathers at the arm pit. If you took the 2nd photo and ignored the colors completely and the length of wings, that bird almost looks like a red shouldered hawk, especially the head and the legs. Great find! H.Gomaa.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-12808918801060907302013-08-07T16:51:13.177-07:002013-08-07T16:51:13.177-07:00Just an anomally like albinism, dlilutism, melanis...Just an anomally like albinism, dlilutism, melanism, etc. I'm assuming.<br /><br />Somebody might know the correct word to describe this bird.Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-34806749185625797572013-08-07T07:16:20.972-07:002013-08-07T07:16:20.972-07:00Any conclusion as to what caused the odd plumage y...Any conclusion as to what caused the odd plumage yet? Very distinctive bird, it's some kind of Swainson's, but the gray reminds me of a male harrier.Derek Lyonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-28905296125783493672013-08-04T13:57:09.485-07:002013-08-04T13:57:09.485-07:00Thank you Cathy!Thank you Cathy!Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-24140140327724278332013-08-04T11:39:24.645-07:002013-08-04T11:39:24.645-07:00I added some additional photos from those I sent t...I added some additional photos from those I sent to Jerry to a facebook album. It is public so anyone should be able to view it. You can view them at: https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/cathy.sheeter/media_set?set=a.10153079591525514.1073741828.602195513&type=3<br /><br />Thanks for sharing these Jerry :)Cathy Sheeterhttp://www.aphelionart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-15867145998389430542013-08-04T09:36:46.979-07:002013-08-04T09:36:46.979-07:00I would love to see a Picture of it soaring from d...I would love to see a Picture of it soaring from directly below. On the first pic with its wings raised you can see a bit more darkness where the commas would be. <br /><br />Whatever it is, I'd like to see it. Its a beaut.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976789474640447781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-5806252286351566712013-08-03T13:53:08.645-07:002013-08-03T13:53:08.645-07:00Hi Bryce
Yes, I definitely agree...and its such a...Hi Bryce<br /><br />Yes, I definitely agree...and its such a striking bird for one that lacks color! The grayish belly and leggings are odd thoughJerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-32334711096025624872013-08-03T12:04:12.089-07:002013-08-03T12:04:12.089-07:00Wow... Great photos of the bird. This is gold cont...Wow... Great photos of the bird. This is gold content Jerry. I love it.<br /><br />My ideas are those of a student, not anything close to an expert, so feel free to shut me down or be blunt. What about schizochroism, lacking the pigment phaomelanin? From what I've learned lately in some reading, plumage aberrations are uncommon, but regular in birds. To me the bird looks normal for a SWHA, except for the color. It looks like there is an absence of all red/brown pigments in the bird, something like what a bird lacking phaeomelanin, only having eumelanin present, would appear. I saw Mia mention plumage aberration, and that seems like the best explanation to me. Fun to wonder though...<br /><br />Here is the paper I read:<br /><br />http://www.housesparrow.eu/pdfs/english/vanGrouwHein2006_NotEveryWhiteBirdIsAnAlbinoSenseAndNonsenseAboutColourAberrationsInBirds.pdf<br /><br />Great post as always.<br /><br /><br /><br />Brycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07895603453725184611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-62408845659270174442013-08-02T20:01:56.723-07:002013-08-02T20:01:56.723-07:00Oh yeah, totally agree Steve...I haven't waive...Oh yeah, totally agree Steve...I haven't waivered from it being an oddly colored Swainson's Hawk. <br /><br />I'm just speculating and drumming up interest since people asked me off line if it could be a Miss Kite x Swainson's hybrid. And it does resemble a kite but only in color due to the lack of pigment and whitish face. The bill seems small but just fine for Swainson's and I assume it is a male anyway since adult male Swainson's can have pale faces (but not to this extent of course) and the underwing coverts are pure white, which is much more common on males than females. But having said all that, I love hearing everyone has to say about it.Jerry Liguorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14203420699692077510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-61596869280073341622013-08-02T19:27:10.425-07:002013-08-02T19:27:10.425-07:00The head size and shape, including the gape, seem ...The head size and shape, including the gape, seem fine for Swainson's Hawk to me. A Ferruginous Hawk has such a long head and thick neck and I don't get any hint of that from these photos at all. Steve Bauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13384511565697464003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-28857455253360899772013-08-02T17:43:23.555-07:002013-08-02T17:43:23.555-07:00Even the banding in the primaries and secondaries ...Even the banding in the primaries and secondaries are a bit smudgy ...but buteo hybrids are rare enough. Hybrids between different families are nearly unheard of. But I love to wonder, and it is a neat bird!Jerry Liguorinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-73925998007675153092013-08-02T16:58:13.634-07:002013-08-02T16:58:13.634-07:00I'm really scrutizing this bird and the more I...I'm really scrutizing this bird and the more I look at it, the more I wonder...<br /><br />I won't say much more because one can only speculate. But that white head, gray color, and what looks like it could be a reddish-brown eye are odd. Even the bill looks small. But who knows?Jerry Liguorinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-20977799955689804412013-08-02T05:00:34.659-07:002013-08-02T05:00:34.659-07:00What a neat looking Swainson's! Perhaps this i...What a neat looking Swainson's! Perhaps this is a form of leucism?Mia McPhersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613385411156245829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2452476371504893454.post-20616761804854271652013-08-02T04:42:07.883-07:002013-08-02T04:42:07.883-07:00Wow, that's a strange looking (and beautiful) ...Wow, that's a strange looking (and beautiful) Swainson's. I see what you mean about its resemblance to a kite. You just never know what you're going to find, "out there". Neat bird!Ron Dudleynoreply@blogger.com